Tires Cupping

Good info, thanks!

@Dogandagladiator
I rotate at oil changes. Was 10k, but now beginning 5k oil changes. So I’ll start rotations every 5k.

@hunneyd
I’m certainly not against going back down to 33 psi. Curious about the chalk test. My rig is about 5900 lbs with my full time gear. Probably 6000-6200 with additional camp gear, depending. I got the tires to tread lightly in baja.

Peace.

Pressure issues aside, frequent rotation is also key. My OEMs got really loud after ignoring that for about 10-12,000 miles. After that, I varied the pressures, rotated them frequently, double checked the alignment. There was no fixing it. My current set are 30,000 miles in and still running virtually silent. Rotating them every 6000 miles has been the solution.

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There are typically a few things that can cause tire cupping:

  1. Weak/worn struts/shocks, no enough damping/rebound to keep the tire planted on the road during suspension movement at higher speeds

*Side note, most of the aftermarket coilovers and shocks are under damped for whatever vehicle application it is for from what I can see (my truck included) because the manufacturer did not design them for that application to have a constant heavy load such as camper, steel bumpers, etc…

  1. Wheel balance

  2. Worn ball joints

  3. Under inflation of tire(s). You have to look at load vs tire pressure as that can vary from vehicle to vehicle. The sticker on the door does not reflect your current set up and only for stock vehicle with same or similar tire & rating.

Most people don’t know it but most of these “built” “overlanding” vehicles with all the gear most likely exceeded the GVWR. Changing the load rating of your tires to E means you’re putting tires that are meant for 1 ton trucks which typically run 60 to 80 psi per the factory inflation label. So by running 35ish PSI range, it’s not really great for it. On top of all the load you are carrying. I’m running E rated KO2’s with 40psi.and so far no abnormal wear but my truck is empty minus the camper. You have to evaluate how much weight you have up front and rear and go from there.

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As long as alignment and steering/suspension components are good do the chalk test and most importantly keep them rotated. I’ve found over the years running mud and all terrain tires on all of my vehicles for many years when rotating cross the fronts to the rear and bring the rear straight forward. If you had directional tires of course this would not be an option but with your vehicle should be a good way to go.

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yes. and “upgrading” shocks, brakes, tires, tunes, wheels, helper bags DO NOT increase GVWR gross vehicle weight rating. going from a ~45 pound tire to a 60 pound tire takes away ~60 pound from your usable GVWR. that kind of thing adds up fast especially on a tacoma with comparatively lower GVWR.

sorry rant over

So I finally got around to doing the chalk test. I arrived at final pressures of 34 cold psi front and 32 cold psi rear. These pressures showed the most even chalk removal for my tacoma with cooper discoverer st maxx tires. 10 ply. I haven’t had a chance to get back out on the freeway, but I think the cupping noise is still mostly the same.

That’s what I got.

Peace.

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That’s just simply not true. Manufacturers base the GVWR on the lowest rated equipment that includes frame, wheels, tires, suspension components, axles, etc.

So YES upgrading suspension and wheels and tires does in fact increase the vehicles safe operating GVWR.

Wow 10 ply on a mini truck seems excessive. Even in my 1/2 ton the 10ply is too hard, but maybe like you, I need them because the roads I drive on have sharp shale rock. But, I made the mistake of getting my winter studded Toyo Open Country tires in a 10 ply. They WAY too hard to be an effective tire, and that’s with all my ski gear loaded and additional tongue weight of two sleds on a trailer.

I won’t by a 10 ply again, unless I upgrade my truck to a 3/4 ton. There’s a reason people trailer their off road vehicles. If the rig is built for heavy wheeling and you need the ply’s for strength at low PSI, guaranteed they’re going to not work well on the highway. That’s not what they’re designed for, as previously mentioned. 10 ply is a HD tire designed for 3/4+ ton vehicles. Not 1/4 ton mini trucks, Jesus I think you’d almost be overweight with just the 4 tires and a full sized spare on a swing out :joy: and some Tacito’s from 7/11 with a monster energy drink in the cup holder :joy:

This is my experience and my opinion if anyone gives a shit :joy:

Also side note, Toyo Open Country are the worst tires I’ve every pissed my money away on…and believe me, I’ve pissed away a lot of money :beer:…now at least I just break my money :joy:

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Point taken. Probably overkill. Maybe I’m treating the driver. I don’t want a flat in baja. They ride fine at lower psi. Dunno.

Peace.

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I hope I didn’t come across like an a-hole, you’re right, like me you’re treating the driver. I need the ply’s for high speed logging road rallies (driving like a maniac). But I too find my K02’s ride infinitely better at about 33psi, but I have to accept that I’m going to pre-wear my tires. The downside for me is that RAM wants 40psi so my TPS sensors are almost always showing low air.

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Once you establish a cold pressure and you know that alignment is good … you need to rotate, rotate, rotate … I just swapped out a set of Milestar MT’s that had 30k on them … worn down, yes, but with no cupping. I rotated every 3-4k.

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"That’s just simply not true. Manufacturers base the GVWR on the lowest rated equipment that includes frame, wheels, tires, suspension components, axles, etc.

So YES upgrading suspension and wheels and tires does in fact increase the vehicles safe operating GVWR."

Your statements are definitely not correct.

Even if upgrading the lowest-rated equipment did increase the GVWR (which it doesn’t), one would need to know exactly what the lowest rated equipment was on the vehicle in the first place. There is no particular reason to think that the tires or individual suspension components were the weak links, and there is no reason to think that going from P-rated tires to load range E tires would fix anything.

GVWR is set by the mfr. You can’t increase it. You can make an overloaded vehicle safer by using stronger components, but you can’t change the fact that it is overloaded.

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+1 This is absolutely correct. In Canada, well BC at least, you can LOWER your GVWR on your insurance but that is solely from an insurance standpoint. Major corporations do this to fleet vehicles to lower insurance costs, remove the need for log books in 1 tons. But I believe this can only be done if the vehicle is registered as a commercial vehicle.

The gvwr is the rating for which the vehicle can travel down the road safely. Sure upgrading components won’t legally change the gvwr but you’re simply just wrong if you say that it’s impossible to increase the gvwr.

The manufacturer sets the gvwr based on components. Why is a Tacoma much lower than a 1 ton ram? Because it has smaller/weaker brakes, axles, lower ply tires, frame, leaf springs, and whatever else is a part of the equation.

If you can lower something’s rating by downgrading parts, then you can increase that rating by upgrading parts.

We’re also talking on a safe operating, passenger vehicle level.
I understand that you can’t change the gvwr if you’re being checked at weigh stations on a commercial aspect.

@Dogandagladiator I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. You say that you can increase the GVW of a vehicle, but then you list every part of the vehicle - including the frame? If you’re replacing the frame, I think it ceases to be what it was. It’s like saying that putting a Tacoma cab and engine on a Super Duty chassis and suspension and wheels is still a Tacoma, when you’ve actually created a Frankenstein that ceases to be either.

Bottom line - if you reengineer every component of the vehicle to handle the higher load you want to carry, you might be safe but still uninsured. But for the hassle and cost of hiring an army of automotive engineers to help you do the design and analysis, you’re better off buying a bigger truck.

I said those are the component’s that manufacturers use to determine the gvwr. Not that you have to replace all of them to improve it, but that upgrading certain components does increase the overall weight that your vehicle can be and still travel safely down the road.

You don’t have to be an engineer to understand that improving things like brakes, tires, and suspension, increases the safe weight that your Tacoma can be. You don’t have to buy a bigger truck just to safely carry a gfc, two passengers, and a weekend full of gear.